花，花

apsaras

这样一说我也觉得困惑了。会不会分别于 China Trade Silver  和 Chinese Export Silver?  还是把当时我翻译的原文抄上来。 严老师可以带领我们分析一下吗？

Citations: Steve Potash's website

This silver, while known as Chinese Export Silver (CES), was not really made for export (as were the porcelains, ivories, fine silks, teas and furniture), as Dr. Crosby Forbes, Curator Emeritus for the Export Arts at the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, points out. The silver was commissioned or purchased by trading company officials, by sea captains calling at the treaty ports, and later by diplomats and other personnel visiting or stationed in China.

Students of this collecting field refer to Chinese Export Silver (CES), or "China Trade Silver," as a once-lost art. Why? Many 18th and 19th Century pieces were later inherited by generations of Americans, who presumed their silver to be of English or early-American manufacture.

It was only in the 1970s -- thanks to the scholarly research of H. A. Crosby Forbes, John Devereux Kernan and Ruth S. Wilkins, who co-authored Chinese Export Silver 1785 to 1885 (Milton, Massachusetts: Museum of the American China Trade, 1975), that scholars, collectors and dealers got an in-depth look at the range of Chinese Export Silver production that had been identified and studied in this country……………

the fact that China produced such extraordinary silver for Westerners during the China Trade period has long been one of the best-kept secrets in silver collecting.

Citations: Silver Magazine March/April 2002 page 26 by Dr. H.A. Crosby Forbes

…. The majority of pieces that come on the market today….. the largest stream of this silver came to light in the pantries and cupboards of descendants of American missionaries, business and military personnel, and wealthy tourists.  Dating from the 1870s to the 1930s…. Americans who had visited or spent time in the more cosmopolitan foreign concessions….. soon learned that Chinese silversmiths’ work, given the relatively low cost of labor combined with the high quality of workmanship, was one of the best bargains in China. As a result, those who could afford it seldom returned home without acquiring some of this silver. Many examples still exist in California, Washington, and Oregon, where a considerable number of these so-called “old China hands” eventually settled in….

小陈

我的翻译睡了，现在学三年大哥，贴图为乐




下面两图可点击放大

nutshell

小陈 发表于 2012-1-5 12:23

                               
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打纯中文标的西式银器数量很多，晚清民国的中国各大城市、通商口岸均有制造。除楼上神老所列3个之外，还有许 ...

陈老刘老所说的有许多类似：

老外定义的CES似乎排除了贸易成份。而实际上，一些文献记载了银器的贸易是普遍存在，尤其在广州，曾有数千人长期从事“洋装”银器和首饰的生产，规模化的产量，国内市场是难以消纳的。

贸易成分肯定是存在的，但这种外销方式可能与众不同，个人猜想觉得CES的外流渠道：
1、在华的洋人等采购运回本国的占比例不小
2、另外有一定数量的货物是香港商行直接向美国等无官方强制标准的国家的出口货（如陈老和神老所探讨，一些港行甚至在美有店铺）。当然这应在19世纪中晚期或更晚，香港没有沦为较重要的英国殖民地前，这种直接出口是几乎不可能的。
3、由国外公司直接进口回本国销售的占的比例则很低--带外国官方鉴定所款、税标的器物在CES中不多见。即便由美国商人进口到美国，不需要鉴定所标记，也至少应该有美国进口商的标记，但貌似没人见过……

正是由于第3条的原因，中国银器在近代参与国际贸易方式才引发国内外藏家的不断思考和探讨。

严世农

小陈 发表于 2012-1-5 23:17

                               
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我的翻译睡了，现在学三年大哥，贴图为乐

钮的设计巧妙，在中银上第一次见到。这一定是大餐馆“花满楼”除夕大餐上烤乳猪用的

apsaras

上两张 LINSKY  底款的图。其中一件器物上 STERLING  字样倒挂了。烦请小陈老师赐教。非常感谢！

带闪光灯拍

不带闪光灯拍

a20015161

耳热，支持，感谢，路过:victory:   顺祝Happy New Year，新春大吉，以及情人节快乐！

apsaras

也来瞅瞅热闹。

严世农

a20015161 发表于 2012-1-6 00:24

                               
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耳热，支持，感谢，路过   顺祝Happy New Year，新春大吉，以及情人节快乐！

历时半载，终于把路老盼来了。看到路老在那边上了个小碗儿，不真诚，不真诚，月老的故事也不写了，糊弄我们

锦桐

入门新人来学习:)

"metal work made in China by native craftsman, of silver and silver gilt, using traditional Chinese techniques, but briefly following Western forms, for export to the West during the period of trading voyages chiefly by sail" （Chinese Export Silver 1785-1885, page 4）
"gold or silver wrought in China by native craftsmen using their own traditional techniques, more or less according to non-Chinese specifications, for export, for foreign residents, and at least primarily for non-Chinese use” （ The Chait Collection of CES, page 9）
以上严老提供观点

This silver, while known as Chinese Export Silver (CES), was not really made for export (as were the porcelains, ivories, fine silks, teas and furniture)
以上神老提供观点

矛盾重点：CES之生产是否真为出口？

神老资料后半段解释得很清楚，为何并不是真的用于出口:
The majority of pieces that come on the market today….. the largest stream of this silver came to light in the pantries and cupboards of descendants of American missionaries, business and military personnel, and wealthy tourists.  Dating from the 1870s to the 1930s…. Americans who had visited or spent time in the more cosmopolitan foreign concessions….. soon learned that Chinese silversmiths’ work, given the relatively low cost of labor combined with the high quality of workmanship, was one of the best bargains in China. As a result, those who could afford it seldom returned home without acquiring some of this silver. Many examples still exist in California, Washington, and Oregon, where a considerable number of these so-called “old China hands” eventually settled in….（Dr. H.A. Crosby Forbes 2002）
当年美国传教士、商人、军职人员、富有的旅行家，其后代的橱柜、食品柜，是目前市场上广为人知的这批（CES）银器最主要的来源。追溯至1870-1930年代，那些游历过或到过更多的遍及全球的特许贸易点的美国人，很快就发现中国银匠的产品，就其高品质的工艺而言，人工成本却相当低廉，是最赚钱的生意之一。所以，凡是能够买到这种银器的人，绝不会空手回国。时至今日，在加利福尼亚、华盛顿、俄勒冈，还有很多这类最终定居于当地的“中国通”。(译文粗陋各位将就吧，鄙人的翻译也出差没影儿了~~~)

因为如果是用于出口，那么应该普通的美国家庭就有；但是，CES主要是先辈到过中国的家庭才有，无论是为传教、贸易，还是为侵略、旅游——总之是他们当年自己在中国买的~

严世农

discovery 发表于 2012-1-3 14:02

                               
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精彩的讨论

虽然卖不起，但看看不收钱吧，老土还是比较有眼福的。
今天真巧，居然又看到一套120 oz带盘咖啡壶龙纹5件套，还是“钜记”+“SILVER" +"C.J.Co."！
火龙珠挺特别，龙须和别的贴片不同，是日式立体的，更特别的是，有的”J"款反打，弄不好过几年就象发行的错票一样，物以希为缺了。